Ira 0:04

Hello and welcome . I am Ira Gordon and , along with Stacey Santee , the host of the Accidental Entrepreneurs Podcast . We each previously founded successful companies Along the way . We became business owners and eventually sold those businesses despite us having no real background in business or ever even planning to become entrepreneurs . In other words , we did this all despite originally having no idea what we were doing or getting ourselves into . In each episode of this podcast , we will share stories and tips from our journey and we'll answer a randomly chosen question about our experience . Let's jump right into the show .

Stacee 0:41

Good day Ira . How are you doing ? What's going on over there ?

Ira 0:45

I'm doing pretty well . I've been a little bit tied up with working on some budgets for a nonprofit that I work with , but also what's made me a little more exciting is my son has been learning to play guitar for the last I don't know six months or so , and now he's in a kind of an introductory band , if you will . So I took him to band practice yesterday . He's, I think, he's the youngest kid in the band . He's 11 and I think it ranges from like 10 to 18 and he's he's the youngest one but he's learning to play a couple of Blink 182 songs which he's a little bit into . He's actually like more of like a heavy rocker than Blink 182 , so he doesn't love it , but he's , uh , he's getting into it , which is fun to see

Stacee 1:36

our youngest, was in a little five boy ensemble band and they play the little local sites and so I have some videos . It's one of our most fun things to watch when they're trying to play Metallica .

Ira 1:55

That's the tag . You live vicariously through them . Yeah , I guess I still play guitar a little bit , not that I'm any good , but back back in the day , like back when I was an intern , one of the residents and I would play together , went to like a few open mic nights and did that kind of thing and , yeah , it's always just kind of fun to see somebody else doing it that you know and you're like , oh yeah , I sort of remember when I was a wannabe one of those and they're way better at it than I was , and it's a good good thing . I pursued a different thing in my life .

Stacee 2:25

What's your best song you and your bandmates played ?

Ira 2:30

What were we the best at ? That's a good question . So I think the song we were best at was there's a song by the Barenaked Ladies called "If I had a Million Dollars .

Stacee 2:41

Oh yeah , I know that .

Ira 2:44

So we used to play that and it was pretty good .

Stacee 2:46

Which is funny .

Ira 2:47

We wrote a few songs as well , which was fun .

Stacee 2:49

Well , now you have a million dollars , so that's good , All right . Well , let's

Ira's answer

Stacee 3:05

hop into our question . This week it is when did you first meet your competitor ?

Ira 3:12

All right . So , just as a reminder , my business was the sort of first of its kind online board preparation for veterinarians . But not too long after we launched our company , a second company started doing prep for the for the same exam , and we met our competitor for the first time at the student American Veterinary Medical Association meeting , because we both were there to talk to students about our new products and how we could help them . And it was super interesting and super awkward , I guess I would say , at least from my perspective . I mean , he's a nice guy , smart guy , but we came to find out that , oddly enough , he was working on building his company and product the same time that we were building ours . And then , from his perspective , out of nowhere , this product doing almost exactly what he wanted to build a product to do , just came on the market a year before he was ready to launch his business .

Ira 4:23

And I think he had left a job at , like the CDC he was also a veterinarian and you know to basically dive headfirst into this company . And yeah , like out of nowhere , like we kind of unintentionally gave him this big kind of punch in the stomach of like , oh , I thought I had , you know , this opportunity with no competition , just like we did . And all of a sudden , like there we were , and so it was , yeah , sort of awkward to sort of realize that we had kind of gotten maybe in the way of his plans and dreams . I think , you know , ultimately , like we all learned that there was room for both businesses to be successful and do great things and , I think , in the long term , pushed us both to , you know , innovate and continually improve our products and all those things . But when you actually , you know , sort of put a face and a person to those things , you realize that you know what , like we're actually just all trying to do something really good and we're good people .

Stacee 5:26

What do you think about having competitors in general ? Because you always wish you didn't have any competitors , right ? But if you look at all the great things out there there's Uber and there's Lyft , there's iPhone and there's Android there's , like , always , a competitor , even in the most excellent things . Is that good , or are you looking for the sweetest of spots when there's no competitor ?

Ira 5:55

I think , ultimately , show me a business that has no competitor and I'll show you a business that has almost no market . I think if there's a good opportunity to help people and to make a difference and people are willing to pay for that , I think there's going to be more than one individual that identifies that , as you know , a place that they want to build a product or a service and they're going to compete . We sort of took it , as you know , a form of flattery to have , you know , a competitor doing the same things we were doing . And , you know , from our perspective at least , we oftentimes felt like , you know , there was , there was sometimes some adopting of , you know , ideas that we'd come up with , or you know , models and pricing , like all those things that somebody was copying , and I'm sure from his perspective he'd say something different .

Ira 6:48

I guess ultimately say you know , like that , that's reinforcing that we're doing something good if somebody else thinks so and wants to do something very similar .

Stacee 6:58

Yeah , that's a good point . If you have no competitors , you probably are in a spot that you should think twice about .

Stacee's answer

Stacee 7:09

Well , for me , okay , I'm just going to tell you what happened with my competitor , because I don't even know if anyone's really listening to this podcast , so I feel like I can tell you the truth .

Ira 7:21

Safe space . Nobody's listening nyway , It's a safe space here

Stacee 7:27

you know I started Vet2Pet . It's very small and I got wind that there was , right at the same time as it goes , another emerging company doing similar things called PetDesk , and I can't remember exactly how I found them , but I was looking in the app store and I downloaded their app and then you can see all the vets in your area . You put your zip code in and you can see all the practices , whether or not they're using PetDesk or not . This was just one of their parts of their platform . So I actually saw my practice in there and I saw other clinics in my area . But I saw my friend Ben Huffnagle in there . He's my classmate from CSU and he's an equine practitioner out there where I live in Bayfield , colorado , and his name came up . But as a small animal provider like I could book a dog spay with him .

Ira 8:29

So you did .

Stacee 8:31

He's my friend and I had built him an app for his equine practice just in my early stages here . And so I'm like , all right , I'm going to book a dog spay with Ben and just see where this takes me . And I did it . And then shortly thereafter , within like five minutes , I get a call from Ben and he's like hey , some company just called me , called Petd esk or something , and they said you wanted me to spay your dog and he goes . Of course he knows that's not true . I'm like , oh no , what'd you say ? What did you say ? And he goes . "Oh , I told him I don't do that . And then they asked me if I wanted an app and I said , oh God , what'd you say ? He goes . I told him I didn't need one because I already had one with you and that to pet . I'm like , oh no , totally .

Ira 9:30

You did this to yourself .

Stacee 9:34

I know . And then, Ira, this is so funny and I actually think , a really classy move . About five minutes after this my phone rang and it was Taylor cavanaugh , the ceo Cavanaugh of and this Petdesk P is I met Taylor .

Stacee 9:49

He's like "um , yeah , it looks like you know we had you try to book a spay through our platform and I realize you're building apps too . So I just wanted to reach out and say hi , I was so embarrassed , I had to really come clean and say Taylor , I was trolling on you . I mean , that's exactly what I was doing , trying to see what your platform was like . They ended up being a very tough competitor and we are always neck and neck with them and you know , I don't know if this is kosher or not , but they're all guys from California .

Stacee 10:32

And our team is all girls , pretty much from Colorado , so we will call them the "bro desk . That's what we always call them . Is the bros . What are the bros up to now ?

Ira 10:43

What do you think they call you girls ?

Stacee 10:44

Yeah , I don't want to know . It was always a friendly competition I guess you would say a friendly sparring of sorts and we get along with them pretty good .

Ira 10:58

That's good .

Ira 10:58

That's good , yeah , I think , uh , yeah , definitely some ups and downs maybe over the years in our relationship with our competitors .

Ira 11:04

I think , you know , there would just always be things that I don't know like . Usually , like somebody would decide to do something , um , and the competitor would sort of catch wind of it and think like , oh , like I can't believe , like my competitor is doing this or saying this , and get super offended and , you know , ultimately come to find out it's like it was just like some somebody did , did something stupid , like unintentionally , and then we don't really talk until somebody gets mad and reaches out to say why'd you do this ? Right ? And yeah , I think that it took a while and some some maturity because we were really young when we first started and met each other to sort of say , you know what , like you know there's , there's room for all of us and , yes , like it's a rivalry and we want to win the competition , if you will . But , um , you know , ultimately it's probably for the best that we're both out there and neither one of us is going anyplace . It's not , you know , may as well , just accept it .

Stacee 12:08

Oh yeah , and there are certainly times where I just very much dislike them . And I was hanging out at some vet meeting thing and Julian Renard was there , who's a founder of Vetstoria and he's a buddy of mine , and I was telling him oh , brodesk , oh , I'm so sick of them . They're always copying our stuff and they're jerks . And he's like have "you ever met them , spent time with them ? Because a couple of the guys are here they're not jerks at all . And I'm like , oh , julie , and he goes , come over here and meet them . I'm like , no , no way . He's like , stacy , come on now , you're not being very professional here , come on , you need to meet him face to face . And so I did . And of course they were super nice and really cool guys .

Stacee 12:57

So disappointing , so disappointing . But I know what you mean . Sometimes you feel like people are stealing your ideas , but probably if you step back a little , there's like just obvious ideas there for the picking .

Ira 13:13

There's so many ways to go about X , y or Z right .

Stacee 13:17

Yeah , no one's really stealing your idea , because you're not the only one that has the idea . I think that's fair

Ira's tip of the week

Stacee 13:37

all right , well , um , let's move to the part of the program where we're going to share our favorite tip trick tool quote I , a number of years ago , did something that I really enjoyed .

Ira 13:53

It was really awesome . It was a week-long healthcare innovation boot camp that was put on by MIT and by Harvard Medical School . So you can go up there and for a week you put in 20-hour days working on a healthcare project on a team and have classes during the day to talk about the things that you're working on . And I thought one of the really interesting and sort of valuable pieces of that came from this book called Disciplined Entrepreneurship" by Bill Aulet , and it kind of outlines like all of the steps I think there's like 24 steps of building a successful startup . And yeah , it was really valuable and I find it to be certainly not the only , but a really helpful framework for thinking about the various things that you need to figure out and do successfully in building a startup .

Stacee 14:57

Oh , that's really cool . It's funny you say that because I've been thinking a lot lately about what are like the key elements of building a startup and kind of what order they're in . And I don't have 20 , how many did he have 24 ?

Ira 15:08

Yes , I believe . I believe it's 24 . I somewhere I have a poster of like the 24 steps , but it's folded up . It's not like on my wall , so I'd have to find it for you .

Stacee 15:18

I must not be thinking big enough , because I only have five .

Ira 15:22

I think there's like five categories they all fall into , or something like that oh , I'll have to go see if my categories match his category .

Stacee 15:28

So my first one was you have to have like you don't have to have all of these , but the more you have , the more successful you're going to be , is my thinking . So the first one is you have to have a product or service that solves a real pain point . The second is you have to have really good technology and infrastructure of your product . Number three is you have to have a really strong idea or deliverable . The product itself has to be dressed up nice and functional , with the UI , ux and all of this . And then the fourth is branding the UI , ux and all of this . And then the fourth is branding , so you have a strong messaging , so your customers know exactly what problem you're solving , so they can buy from you . And then the fifth is marketing , so people know that you exist . Those are kind of my big five I've been thinking about .

Ira 16:29

Very cool . Well , this will probably be entirely unhelpful for a podcast , but I'm sharing the screen of the 20 , it was right , it's 24 Steps of Disciplined Entrepreneurship by Bill and , yeah , sort of covers . You're pretty close right , like the blue section here . I don't know what the blues is coded to , but there's market segmentation , beachhead , market end user profile , total addressable market and the persona of that buyer and then your first 10 customers and anyway it goes all along . But yeah , I think it is not as maybe marketing focused as your steps are . You know , I think the later steps here you know more along the lines of , you know , looking at the business model and pricing framework and lifetime value and some of those things . But I think I think you're on the right track and here's another framework for you to consider .

Stacee 17:28

Awesome . I'm going

Stacee's tip of the week

Stacee 17:29

to post this in the notes for the podcast .

Ira 17:34

Sounds good .

Stacee 17:36

Okay , sure .

Ira 17:37

My my poor reading of the map was not helpful to anybody .

Stacee 17:43

I like that map . My tip of the week is this podcast called Radical Candor and you know , when I was building Vet2Pet , one of the things I was really passionate about since it was my company was that we were going to have a great culture and we had to say what great culture meant to us and for me . One of my love languages or core values is like brutal honesty , just being honest , and I hate it when you work at a company and people think things or say things to other people about either you or the things you're working on , because they can't say them to you directly , because they feel maybe they don't want to hurt your feelings or whatever .

Stacee 18:35

It's really quite hard to be candid with someone and so early on , that was what I hired for . That was one of the big core values is we're not going to talk about each other , we're going to talk to each other , and I found we had to get some skills around this and that podcast was amazing . So the whole team what we would do is we would listen to an episode once a week and then we have a meeting about it and think about how we could implement that lesson of the week in our real work life . And it even came to the point where we could say things like I've got to share some radical candor with you . Like we could reference the podcast as a lead in to being candid and it really helped us be honest and truthful with one another and you know , when you feel that way , you feel very respected , even if people don't like what you're doing . Someone telling you that they don't like what you're doing feels a lot better than them telling somebody else . So I really love that podcast .

Ira 19:48

Yeah , no , that's great . I think I'm sure it comes from sort of a book of the same title that's oftentimes referenced and has , I think , great advice about sort of building the type of culture you just referenced . I saw it must've been a LinkedIn post a week or two ago where I kind of didn't really like it but I disagreed with it . But it said that maybe I don't , I just don't know but it said that there is also , like , I guess , this group of people that use that phrase radical candor as sort of just like an excuse to be a dick .

Stacee 20:24

Don't do that .

Ira 20:26

Which is like the complete opposite of the intent of of the book and sort of all the messages within the book and the podcast . So I thought I just thought that was sort of interesting . I saw that the other day . I had a sort of a negative reaction to the comment and and then you brought it up here .

Stacee 20:43

Oh , they're listening , I know they are . Well , and you know , being candid with someone is kind of a superpower and you have to be like Spider-Man there , because with great power comes great responsibility , so you can hurt people's feelings still . So you have to learn how to do it , and that's what the podcast teaches you .

Ira 21:05

I mean , ultimately , it's about people knowing that you genuinely care about them . And I oftentimes think to myself , like I I usually don't criticize people I don't like , because I don't view it as my job to help people that I don't like to get better . Um and so if I am critical of you or what you're doing and I'm sharing that with you like it's because I care about you , that I , that I want to do that . Like I , I tend to instinctively have a desire to avoid conflict , which I know is often not healthy . And so when I , when I pursue it , it's it's because I care about the person and or care about the outcome , but usually it's because I care about the person .

Stacee 21:51

Yeah , that's so good . All right , well , let's spin the wheel and we'll see what we've got coming up for next time . What we've got coming up

Next week's question

Stacee 22:01

for next time , oh , this is fitting . What was the leadership style at your company ?

Ira 22:12

Interesting , interesting . We had several leaders and we all had a different style , but I think we definitely had some things in common , so that'll be good to talk about .

Stacee 22:21

All right , I'll see you guys next time . Thanks for listening to the show today .